U.S. and Hong Kong (1985-1997)

Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright - Interview on NBC-TV "Meet the Press", Hong Kong (6/29/1997)

Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright
Interview on NBC-TV "Meet the Press"
Hong Kong, June 29, 1997
As released by the Office of the Spokesman
U.S. Department of State

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Madam Secretary, you're scheduled to meet Mr. Tung tomorrow. What will you say to him about human rights and democracy in Hong Kong?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I will say that we want to make sure that the Hong Kong of tomorrow is like the Hong Kong of today, where there is a combination of democracy, rule of law, and a free market. That is the magic of Hong Kong, and the combination of those elements needs to be maintained.

MR. RUSSERT: He mentioned to Tom Brokaw the priorities of housing, employment, education, and law and order as if democracy was part of that list. Was that a little bit troubling?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I would have framed it differently because I think that democracy is the underlying concept that makes it possible for the kinds of laws that are required for housing and education and employment, to be carried out in a way that suits the people of the area, whatever country, whatever place.

He spoke a lot about principles. I found that very interesting. We're apparently the same age and have thought about our principles. I will be talking to him generally about the importance of making sure that the way of life of Hong Kong is preserved for the people of Hong Kong.

MR. RUSSERT: There's already been discussion that effective in 36 hours, if you want to organize your protest on the streets, you need a police permit; already discussion about restrictions on the press and on freedom of religion. Isn't this all a bit ominous?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: We thought that the movement towards democracy in the last few years here had been a very positive one. We do not want to see any rollback in that. But I think, Tim, what we have to do is judge this over time. What's happening in Hong Kong is not just snapshot. This is going to be a story that unrolls over some period of time. We will be watching it very closely.

We would like to make sure that the various aspects that made Hong Kong function continue. But, as I understand it, there will be demonstrations here. Everybody is counting on them being peaceful, and everybody wants very much that the freedom of press and association on civil liberties are preserved here because that's what has made Hong Kong worked.

MR. RUSSERT: There are now wired dispatches moving that the Chinese Government from Beijing is sending 4,000 troops on 10 ships, six helicopters, and 21 armored vehicles to Hong Kong. What do you think of that?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: First of all, the Chinese and the British made a commitment about preserving the way of life of Hong Kong. What is very important now is for the government in Beijing to give reassurances to the people of Hong Kong that their way of life will be preserved. We think that it's very important that the right signals be sent so that the people do, in fact, feel reassured. It's not a matter, really, of what is permitted to them under the agreement but the message that is being sent.

I must say, speaking personally, that that kind of arrival of those numbers is not a good beginning.

MR. RUSSERT: It's rather troubling the fact that Mainland China had decided to sent 4,000 troops on the eve of the turnover, isn't it?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: According to the agreement, they have the right -- this is going to be their sovereign territory. But I think the issue here is not what is permitted but the message that it sends. As I said, I think we would have preferred, or I would have preferred to see a slightly different message in the first count here.

MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Tung hinted to Tom Brokaw that the Chinese Government in Beijing may, in fact, officially apologize for the loss of hundreds -- some even say thousands -- of lives on Tiananmen Square in June '89. Would that be a good idea?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: We have thought that Tiananmen Square was a singularly bad act, and have sanctioned Beijing for having carried out what were very repressive measures. But, again, it's hard to predict what they're going to do. We certainly have all been very critical and have, in fact, taken action against the Chinese because of the events of Tiananmen.

MR. RUSSERT: But an official apology by the Chinese Government would be constructive, wouldn't it?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: It would. I had not seen that report. Obviously, yes, it would, though you can't bring back some of the people who suffered through all that. But, obviously, it would be positive.

MR. RUSSERT: You are officially boycotting the inauguration of the new legislature. However, you have decided to send your General Consul. Why not just boycott completely and not send a mixed signal?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Prime Minister Blair and I have decided to send a very strong political signal by not attending the swearing-in ceremony for the legislative council. But what is important here, Tom, is for American national interests to be protected. It is very important because there will be additional swearing-ins going on at the time of the civil service and other authorities for there to be a American representation at the working level.

We have a lot of business here in Hong Kong. We have something like 65 ship calls a year. There are 40,000 Americans that live in Hong Kong. We do a great deal of business here, and therefore it's important for there to be working-level representation. The representation is basically executive-to-executive branch and not a recognition of this provisional legislative council. So I think that there is this very strong political message that Prime Minister Blair and I are sending by not attending this swearing-in.

MR. RUSSERT: What is the message you're trying to send, Madam Secretary/

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: That we believe that the legislative council that had been elected was a good one; that it had the support of the people; that it was doing its job; that it was unnecessary for there to be the creation of this new legislative council that is appointed and has a different distribution of political interests, and therefore it is not the fulfillment of some of the commitments to democracy. That is the message.

Politically, we believe that creating a new council was unnecessary; that the one that was in place fulfilled the requirements of democratic representation.

MR. RUSSERT: Some of these so-called dissidents have said that this mixed message -- you boycotting but sending one of your deputy's to the inauguration -- is "selling out." Another said it was "disgusting and contemptible." I know you have met with the human rights dissidents. What have they told you to your face?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I have met with a variety of political leaders today. Their opinions are quite divided. It is true that Martin Lee's party does not believe that we should be sending this "mixed message." On the other hand, I think that it's very important for us to have working-level representation. Because I think the American people would want to make sure that American interests continue to be properly taken care of here in Kong Kong. As I said, we do have 40,000 Americans here. We do have ship calls. It's very important for us to be able to carry on business. Aside from the fact, as I mentioned, there are other events taking place -- the swearing-in of the civil service and other authorities. So I believe that the strong political signal that's being sent by not being there as the highest-level American official; but to have working-level representation is just about the right way to react.

MR. RUSSERT: Will there be any price for China to pay if, in fact, they begin to suppress human rights and democracy in Hong Kong?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: First of all, as I said, this is going to be a story that unfolds over the next months. We are going to be watching it very closely. We started watching it. That, again, is the reason that I decided to come. We will watch it very closely.

Obviously, if there is not a living-up to the commitments, then it will take its toll on U.S. Chinese relations. But I would prefer to look at it as the Chinese understanding that there is a magic in Hong Kong and that they will want to preserve it. They have a very important relationship here already.

I don't think enough people are aware of the fact that a $100 billion worth of Hong Kong business is done with China now and $50 billion worth of business from China to Hong Kong. I learned today from these political leaders that four million people on Mainland China are employed by Hong Kong businesses.

It is an advantage to the Chinese and important to them in terms of their international respectability to, in fact, preserve the magic of Hong Kong. I think that is the direction in which they're going to go because they see the value of it. Hong Kong is a jewel. They now want it to be part of their collection.

MR. RUSSERT: Some have suggested this is a grand design by the Chinese communists. First, Hong Kong, and they will next move on Taiwan. Do you foresee the reunification of Taiwan and Mainland China?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: The thing that we have always hoped is that they would work out a peaceful solution through dialogue of that issue. We have had a one-China policy since the Shanghai communiqués, and we want there to be a peaceful dialogue and a peaceful resolution of the issue. What they have talked about for Hong Kong is two systems/one country. That is what they are doing here.

What we want and what we have advocated is that there be peaceful dialogue and discussions in order to deal with the Taiwan issue.

MR. RUSSERT: Madam Secretary, before you go, I have to ask you a question on Bosnia. Since you've been traveling, the House of Representatives have voted by nearly a two-to-one margin to cut off all funding for American troops in Bosnia as of June '98 when the President had committed their withdrawal.

As you know, on this program, in March, Secretary of Defense William Cohen said, "Absolutely, all American troops would be home from Bosnia in June '98." Will that commitment be kept?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: President Clinton has said that the SFOR mission would be over by that summer. That is our intention. We are working very hard now, as I think you have heard me and Secretary of Cohen say, to make sure that the civilian implementation is carried out robustly in the course of this year; that there is very close cooperation between the civilian and military aspects of this. That's what we're going to concentrate on.

As we describe the situation to the American people, as we talk to our allies about it, it is our intention. The most important thing now is to concentrate on getting the civilian implementation part of the job done.

MR. RUSSERT: So you have no problem with Congress cutting off funding for American troops for next year?

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think it is very important for us to concentrate on what we're doing now. As we have said, we have no plans to go beyond June '98. The decision is really -- the Commander-in-Chief makes the decision. He has said that the SFOR mission would be over. But there will be -- and we've said this also, it's not going to be a time that the international community just kind of washes its hands of Bosnia. There's going to be a great deal to do diplomatically and economically to try to have reconstruction in Bosnia.

The most important thing that we need to do now is concentrate on the job at hand, and that is the civilian implementation and that's what we're doing.

MR. RUSSERT: Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, thank you very much for joining us from Hong Kong. Have a safe trip home.

SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Thanks a lot, Tim.

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